1) How much does religion have to play with this decision for these Italian doctors?
2) Should doctors be forced to do the procedure to help control population?
3) Is this a women's rights issue? What does it mean that the number is up from 2005?
4) Are there other countries in the world where this is happening?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/11/italian-gynaecologists-refuse-abortions-miscarriages
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ReplyDeleteAlthough many of the doctors say that they can not perform abortions because they will then have a bad chance at getting births and will suffer financially, religion is still the main factor at play here. When the majority of a population believes that abortion is immoral, it becomes difficult to perform the procedure. Even if these doctors don't believe the procedure to be immoral, they still will receive a bad reputation. The only way that this can be fixed, is if the people who disagree stop living in fear an step up for change. I think that when a doctor refuses to do an operation because of their own beliefs and forgoes the safety and well being of the patient, they are putting the life of the patient at risk. The denial of an abortion to a woman who is not ready to raise a child can cause her to make rash decisions like illegal abortions, self abortions, and can even lead her into depression or making decisions that will put the baby at risk.If not for overpopulation, that alone should be a strong enough reason to sway a doctor into doing his or her job and providing care for the patient. If you go to school to become a gynecologist, you should be fully prepared to do your job. If abortion offends you, you should consider looking at another line of work. This is certainly a woman's rights issue. Women fought very hard in order to gain the right to abortion and now it is threatening to be taken from them. The fact that this is becoming a problem again 40 years after it was settled is very frightening. Women in Italy may not be taken as seriously and may not understand what it was like before abortion was illegal. They don't see how lucky they are. Sadly, this is not the most developed country this is happening in. Currently, in several of the more conservative states of The U.S. similar situations are happening. There is currently a Supreme Court case against a bill that Texas has passed which makes it extremely difficult for women to receive an abortion and has shut down many abortion clinics that they deem to be "unsafe". Supreme Court females are livid over the strict laws like: patients require two visits to a clinic before having an abortion performed, clinic halls must be 8 feet wide, and minors need parental consent. Scary to think that these debates are happening just beneath the border.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ruth-bader-ginsburg-texas-abortion-law_us_56d78d8ee4b0000de403673e
I agree with Tosha and i think it's sad that even in the United States, where they're seen as trying to achieve gender equality for the most part, many states are still denying women of their right to abortions. I think that the right to abortion is absolutely vital to gender equality because another man or woman should not be able to dictate what a woman is able to do or not to do with her own body. Women have come a long way from where they were in regards to equality, but they still have a long fight ahead of them in order to reach their full potential.
DeleteI agree with Tosha as well. I think that if you choose to become a gynecologist you need to be prepared to do your job and you definitely need to separate your beliefs from your line of work. It is not fair to the patient if you deny their safety because you think your opinion is right. I also think that the government has no right to intervene on these kinds of issues. This decision is up to the female who is carrying the baby. It is not based on the morals of the people in the government or religion. It is what is best for the women. No one knows the background behind where each baby came from or what will happen to it in the future, so i believe that an abortion should be available if the female chooses to have one.
DeleteI agree with Tosha as well. I think that if you choose to become a gynecologist you need to be prepared to do your job and you definitely need to separate your beliefs from your line of work. It is not fair to the patient if you deny their safety because you think your opinion is right. I also think that the government has no right to intervene on these kinds of issues. This decision is up to the female who is carrying the baby. It is not based on the morals of the people in the government or religion. It is what is best for the women. No one knows the background behind where each baby came from or what will happen to it in the future, so i believe that an abortion should be available if the female chooses to have one.
DeleteI agree with all of you. A lot of the time, when a women wants an abortion, it is because she was raped or too young. It is not her fault she became pregnant and if she does not want to go through pregnancy or can't, she should be allowed to have an abortion without the scrutiny of society blaming her for killing a child.
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DeleteI agree with what has been said above. Being in Italian class, we learn a lot about the culture; I have learned that most Italians are quite religious. 88 percent of Italians are Catholic (http://thisonesite.com/Italy), and the Catholic Church sees abortion as the termination of an unborn life, and therefore, it's wrong, sinful, and immoral.
DeleteOn the other hand, I don't think it is their choice to prevent a women from having an abortion. These doctors went to school for this job and should follow through on their responsibilities.
It's very unfortunate to see these things happening and hopefully it can be resolved for the good of society.
i agree with has been said above. with any profession there are responsibilities that have to be taken care of. if one of your responsibilities as a gynecologist is to preform abortions it is your duty to perform them, regardless of personal beliefs. These doctors are acting immature and irresponsible and in my opinion should loose their licenses.
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ReplyDeleteI think abortions should be something that is legal and commonly taught to student doctors. As much as abortions can be a very controversial, I still believe that it should be an option for women. If women are unable to get this procedure they will turn to illegal and harmful options. As a class of young adults, I’m confident many of us would see this as an option if anyone were to become pregnant. In Ontario there are abortion clinics in all largely populated areas and much of the fees are covered by OHIP. All 11 in Ontario are at least partly covered and the rest of them in Canada are covered the same way. Some of the clinics in Canada require a doctor’s referral, however some do not and a woman may just go to the clinic and receive an abortion. I feel that the Canadian abortion system is as safe and healthy as abortion can be and I feel the system is set up well. The increasing number of doctors in Italy that are refusing to participate in abortion procedures is alarming for women. This has led to a lot of illegal abortions and these are harmful for women. Many of these doctors are refusing because of their professional reputation and for their income. Personally I feel that this is ridiculous. I have hopes of becoming a doctor in the future and I would say that I would care more to help a woman's life than my income based on one client. Abortions were passed in Italy nearly 40 years ago and now they seem to be going back in progression and abortions are being limited. For the safety of women alone I think that abortions should be allowed and preformed. Women fought for abortions to become legal and I don’t fully understand why women are fighting to make sure that they are an option for them.
http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/list-abortion-clinics-canada.pdf
i agree with what Lindsay has said above. i found it interesting that you took into consideration of "at home" methods of abortion and how not allowing for legal abortion doesn't solve anything. people are still going to abort, they will just put themselves and others at risk while doing it because they lack a safe, clean, and legal option.
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ReplyDeleteI think that these Italian doctors are restraining themselves from doing abortions mostly for religious purposes. This is because of the fact that many religions prohibit and shame abortion, and if a doctor is religious, he or she has the right to deny carrying out an abortion – made especially easier with the new law that made it harder for women to undergo abortions in most circumstances.
I don’t think that this topic really has much to do about population control. Abortions do help control the population, but the reason that women choose have abortions does not concern that topic, but more about mental, physical, financial, social, or family reasons.
I completely believe that abortion is a women’s rights issue. I fully support the decision of any woman to undergo abortion if she feels as though it is best for her own life and well-being. I believe that a woman should have the right to decide what to do with her own body, whether the pregnancy is the result of an accident, rape, incest, or if the woman is just not ready to make a commitment for any reason at that point in her life. I believe that she should have the right to choose what to do in the situation, and that her government and her doctor should not take her right in doing so. After Italy’s doctors turned away mass amounts of women to doing safe and clinical abortions, Italy saw a lower amount of abortions being made, but a significantly higher amount of miscarriages. We have seen and have heard time and time again that if you deny a woman of her need to access safe abortion clinics and doctors, she will just be forced to undergo the procedure in other unsanitary, degrading, and often dangerous methods. Personally, I think that religion is something that should be kept personal to one’s self and that a person’s beliefs should not be forced onto other people or used as a guilt tactic. Especially in the case with doctors, I believe that they should carry out their practice in the best interest of the health and well-being of their patient, and not their own faith or religious desire.
Abortion is still illegal in many places around the world, where approximately 25% of the world's population lives in countries with highly restrictive abortion laws - mostly in Latin America, Africa and Asia. In some countries, such as in Chile, women still go to prison for having an illegal abortion, and abortion is not allowed even in cases of rape or when the pregnancy endangers the life of the woman.
http://www.womenonwaves.org/en/page/460/abortion-laws-worldwide
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/mother/for_1.shtml
I completely agree with Mahshad's statement. I didn't even put into consideration the social and financial aspect of having to have a child (especially at such a young age). Having a child at a young age can have social consequences because of other peoples views. If you are a single mother in some religions it is considered a sin but if you get an abortion it is also a sin. So how can you win? Being a single mother can be incredibly hard as well if you don't make a stable income. So many of these children will grow up in an orphanage and won't live an average childhood.
DeleteI also agree with what Mahshad has said. Having children at an early age can be detrimental, not only to the mother, but the child. In many places around the world birth control, and other options which we in developing countries which we have access to are not accessible. Partly because of the status of the country and another huge contributing factor is religion. Aborting is frowned upon in different religions. Going through with an abortion could lead to the mother being disowned or punished in physical ways. But allowing a child to be born into a family who has nothing can be just as worse. This is a huge contributing factor to our world's overpopulation.
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ReplyDeleteAbortion has been practiced for many years and can be dated back to the 1800's in the United States. In the 1880's abortion was a very common treatment that women would undergo and it was not prohibited until later on in the 19th century. Why was abortion outlawed though? The main reason: religion. In many religions abortion is shunned because it is thought to be equivalent to killing a young child; this ties in with the 10 commandments in Christianity. Being that Italy is a Roman Catholic dominated country many doctors will not provide their patients with abortions because they may be shamed by others and lose business. This makes it very hard for doctors and they have decide what matters more to them; the well being of the patient or the pride in practicing their religion. This makes life difficult for some doctors.
So should doctors have the right to deny abortion to patients due to the large increase in our population? I would say no. Not only does abortion help slow down our planet's rapid population increase, but it is also extremely necessary for some women. When I went to Nicaragua last summer with a mission group we visited a women's shelter to drop off some donations and learn about the struggles of being a woman in a third world country. While we were here we learned about an 11 year old girl who lives in the shelter because she was raped and is recovering from the devastating event. Not only was this young girl raped at 11 years old, she was also impregnated by her attacker. Because abortion is illegal in Nicaragua this young girl would be forced to keep her baby, if she survives the birth. Since she is so young her hips have not developed enough and it is very unlikely that she would survive the pregnancy. So when we think about religion and how it affects abortion, what is worse an abortion or the death of an 11 year old mother and her child left without her? If someone is going into the field of gynecology and is concerned with the idea of performing an abortion it is best that they change career paths.
With this in mind it is simple to see that this is a large women's rights issue. A woman is entitled to do what she pleases with her body and to not be scolded for her choice. No matter the laws about abortion women will still find a way in order to terminate the pregnancy if desired. This is shown by the increased number of miscarriages between 2005 and 2013.
The most alarming part about this is that not only are other countries around the world against abortion, in some it is illegal. About 25% of our world lives in an area with strict regulations related to abortion. Some of these countries include: Brazil, Colombia, Chile, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Gustamala, Haiti, Honduras, Mexico, Nigaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Venezuela,Angola, Benin, Central African Rep.Chad, Congo, Côte d'Ivoire, Dem. Rep. of Congo, Gabon, Guinea- Bissau, Kenya, Lesotho, Madagascar, Mali, Mauretania, Mauritius, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Somalia, Tanzania, Togo, Uganda, Afghanistan, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Libya, Oman, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, and more.
So if you are against abortion are you against death or are you against life?
http://www.womenonwaves.org/en/page/460/abortion-laws-worldwide
I agree with Sam. The Catholicism in Italy has brought many great things, but the religion's influence on the doctors is infringing on women's safety. That's a very sad story about the girl in Nicaragua, and unfortunately the story isn't that uncommon. Similar things are happening to many women in countries all over the world.
DeleteI agree with Sam. The Catholicism in Italy has brought many great things, but the religion's influence on the doctors is infringing on women's safety. That's a very sad story about the girl in Nicaragua, and unfortunately the story isn't that uncommon. Similar things are happening to many women in countries all over the world.
Deleteooooou good comment "So if you are against abortion are you against death or are you against life?"
DeleteAnd thank you for sharing your story about the young girl in Nicaragua. It's horrible how people can deny an 11 year old child an abortion when she was raped. Abortions are specifically needed because the baby was conceived due to rape, or the mother simply doesn't want a child yet. Religion is also a touchy subject because the people who follow a religion don't necessarily believe in the same thing. I am Roman Catholic and my family supports abortion. But clearly there are others who may not be so supporting. So I think if you're not prepared or completely comfortable with doing the procedure based on your religion or beliefs, you shouldn't be in that line of work. I don't agree with some others comments on this post saying if you're a doctor and are expected to do an abortion procedure but based on your religious beliefs you don't want to, you have to do it anyway because it's the person carrying the baby choice not yours as a doctor. I don't agree with that because I think both the person pregnant and the doctor should be comfortable with what's to take place
I agree with what has been said above. The Catholic Church and other religious institutes still see abortion as sinful and immoral, which acts as a barrier to many being able to support abortion. However, if you have accepted a certain line of work, you cannot let your religious beliefs prevent you from properly completing your job. Women have to be able to make the choice for themselves. When they have made this decision, it should not be denied by a person whose beliefs have tainted their practice.
Deletemark this one: Religion has a huge factor on their decision making, but i firmly believe religion should be left out of their work place. If the doctor feels so strongly against abortions because of their religious beliefs, perhaps OBGYN was not the correct career path for them. I don't think it matters why the woman wants an abortion, if it's because of health reasons or simply because she does not want the child, she should have the right to choose. Doctors should be forced to do the procedure if it is the right thing for the patient, or what the patient wants. In the case of Italy, they don't need abortions to control their population since they have a decreasing birth rate. Abortion was legalized in 1978 in Italy, but the woman must provide a health, economic, or social reason for wanting to terminate the pregnancy. That means that it is really up to the OBGYN if the woman can have an abortion. Italian woman struggle to get abortions since very few Italian doctors perform them, and the final say comes from the doctor. This is for sure a women's rights issue. Since 2005 the number of doctors against abortion has risen along with the number of reported miscarriages, or 'illegal abortions'. These trends are linked. Making abortion illegal doesn’t stop abortion, it only stops safe abortions. This is happening in a lot of countries. There are countries, like Chile, where abortion is never permitted even in cases of rape, and a woman that gets an illegal abortions can face time in prison. There are countries, like Italy, where abortion appears to be legal but in reality it is very difficult to get one. Roughly 21.6 million women get unsafe abortions per year and 18.5 million of those are in developing countries. 47 thousand women die each year due to unsafe abortions, this accounts for 13% of maternal deaths. Canada is one of the few countries without any criminalizing laws against abortion, yet it can still be difficult to have one if you do not live in a major city. Unfortunately the majority of the world doesn't have similar laws to Canada.
ReplyDeletehttp://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CBRT.IN
https://www.angloinfo.com/rome/how-to/page/rome-healthcare-pregnancy-birth-termination-abortion
http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/unsafe_abortion/magnitude/en/
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ReplyDeleteI believe that religion has a major role in the decision to give abortions. Italy is a very religious European country, with the Vatican standing as a symbol of Italy’s religion. In the eyes of god, abortion is seen as a sin, it’s seen as murder, and with religion hanging over everyone’s head, nobody wants to be the one to break their religious code. I think that perhaps another major reason why doctors won’t give abortions is because there are still lots of people in Italy who are against abortions and the doctors would have a bad reputation.
ReplyDeleteForced abortion is never a good abortion. Both the patient and the doctor should be comfortable and prepared for the procedure. A doctor shouldn’t be forced to give an abortion if they are not comfortable with the procedure, because that could cause accidents. However more abortions would greatly help population control.
I agree this is an issue, and that abortion is a woman’s rights issue, however the issue here is more of a doctor/ healthcare issue. Abortion has already been legalized, and has been for many years. The problem is that many doctors will not perform the procedure, making it a religious issue, perhaps even a population issue. The number of Italien doctors refusing abortion has gone up since 2006, meaning religion has either gained a stronger hold on doctors, or they are moving farther away from abortion because of their own personal choices. Either way, it is a problem that children are born into families who either cannot support the child or straight up don’t want it. It’s also a problem because it’s causing women to seek illegal abortion.
There are still many countries around the world that abortion is illegal to the extent of saving a woman’s life, such as: Brazil, Colombia, Chile, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Gustamala, Haiti, Honduras, Mexico, Nigaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Venezuela,Angola, Benin, Central African Rep.Chad, Congo, Côte d'Ivoire, Dem. Rep. of Congo, Gabon, Guinea- Bissau, Kenya, Lesotho, Madagascar, Mali, Mauretania, Mauritius, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Somalia, Tanzania, Togo, Uganda, Afghanistan, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Libya, Oman, Sudan (r), Syria, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Laos, Myanmar, Papua New Guinea, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Ireland, and Malta. (https://www.womenonweb.org/en/page/619/abortion-laws-worldwide)
Although the issue of doctors not giving abortions is a big one, having abortion being illegal is an even bigger one, and it should be focused on more than this one.
Don't you feel that if a doctor chooses to persue a job in gynceolgy, he or she should be prepared to do their job in the best interest of the patient? There are many other fields of study that do not involve procedures that go against their belief system, and they should follow those fields of study as opposed to choosing gynecology, and not providing the best care to the patient.
DeleteMARK THIS ONE: Clearly, religion plays a large role in decisions of Italian doctors, as 7/10 refuse to preform an abortion based on religious beliefs. In fact, Data collected by the Italian Department of Health shows that the proportion of gynecologists’ who conscientiously object to the procedure is in excess of 90% in some regions. It is highest in the southern regions of Molise (93.3%) and Basilicata (90.2%), where the proportion of objecting doctors more than doubled in the seven years to 2013. I do not believe that all doctors should be forced to perform this procedure, but as a gynecologist, they should be as it is part of their job, and women should not be denied the opportunity to have an abortion. This is 100% a women’s rights issue. To explain, women should be able to make the choice as to whether or not they want to have a child, as being pregnant is not always planned. Some women may be pregnant due to an unfortunate situation, such as rape, and should be able to receive an abortion if she wants one. It should be her choice, and not the governments. The number is up from 2005 means that as more women are being denied abortions, the rates of miscarriages are steadily increasing, meaning that women are taking desperate measures to an abortion, both dangerously and illegally. Sadly, this is happening in more countries than just Italy. Abortions are still considered illegal places like Latin America, Africa, Chile, and Asia.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/11/italian-gynaecologists-refuse-abortions-miscarriages
http://www.womenonwaves.org/en/page/460/abortion-laws-worldwide
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ReplyDeletePersonally, I think religion does play a huge role when it comes to abortions. I dont agree with it, but it does. I feel like if you got yourself into that line of work, you should be aware of all the responsibilities and duties that comes hand in hand with the job. People shouldn't have to be 'forced' into doing their job. It should just be accepted.
This is 100% no doubt in my mind a women's rights issue!!!! If women had access to safe, controlled abortions population control right now wouldn't be an issue all over the world. Women have to be able to make the choice for themselves. They're the only ones who truly know if they are emotionally, physically and financially stable enough to support what would be their responsibility, a child. Half way through the 20th century women in many countries including Italy were expected and forced to marry their rapists. That is the only way men could eliminate their crime. There is actually a really good Italian film called "La moglie più bella" which translates to 'The most beautiful wife' based on a true story regarding this same issue.
This is happening all over the world today. Mostly commonly talked about in third world countries but it is still EXTREMELY frowned upon in most of the United States. I am not sure if it is legal/illegal in all 50 states but early 2016 ALU has started a "life law" which is a ranking the 50 states based on how well women are protected from abortion industry abuse.
Life law: http://www.aul.org/2016/01/new-number-one-state-tops-auls-life-list-for-protecting-mothers-and-infants-from-abortion-industry-abuses/
The most beautiful wife: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0232114/combined
I am also shocked to hear about just how much of a problem that access to abortion is in some of the more conservative states. It is basically as difficult in some of these states to get an abortion than it was when abortion was illegal. Ridiculous laws are being passed to make abortions more and more difficult to obtain. These states should be held responsible for any young woman's life who is destroyed by witholding access to the health care they deserve.
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ReplyDeleteReligion definitely plays one of the biggest roles when it comes to whether or not people are comfortable with abortion. The idea of people thinking that abortion shouldnt be legal and women shouldnt have the choice seems crazy to me and im sure it does to a lot of other people. I think that women should have the choice to do what they want with their body. Conversly i also think that doctors shouldnt be force to perform abortions if they object to it. If abortion is seen as a negative thing in your abortion or you just personally arent comfortable with it then you shouldnt be forced to take part it in. Abortion is definitely a womens rights issue. It should go without saying that women should have the right to do whatever they feel is right with their body, and when their right to this is taken away and made scarcely available it is going against womens rights. Im very surprised to see that the rates of doctors that wont perform abortions is up since 2005, i thought that the rate of doctors that would perform an abortion would be up because i think that society is slowly getting more accepting and understanding of everyones rights as humans and particularly women.
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ReplyDeleteI believe that religion plays a big part for the Italian doctors. According to New York Times Newspaper, seventy percent of gynecologists — up to 83 percent in some conservative southern regions — are conscientious objectors to the law, and do not perform abortions for religious or personal reasons in a country that remains, culturally at least, overwhelmingly Catholic. It is a circumstance that has alarmed some women’s health experts, who say that the challenges will grow only more severe in the years ahead. I believe that the religious sensibilities of healthcare providers should not outweigh the healthcare needs of patients, because, as the state of abortion access in Italy demonstrates, at some point it becomes impossible to just “go elsewhere.” This doesn’t mean that every provider has to offer the service, but I think that it does mean that the law, hospitals, and clinics cannot turn away from giving this procedure. Women have a right to proper health care, in reality and not just on paper. Also when the physician’s religious beliefs are looked to be higher than the patient’s, when his opinions are afforded more legal protection that the patient’s right to care, the purpose of both healthcare and religious freedom is lost. Another religion that is strictly against abortion is Muslim. Muslims regard abortion as wrong, but many accept that it may be permitted in certain cases. All schools of Muslim law accept that abortion is permitted if continuing the pregnancy would put the mother's life in real danger. This is the only reason accepted for abortion after 120 days of the pregnancy. Different schools of Muslim law hold different views on whether any other reasons for abortion are permitted, and at what stage of pregnancy if so. I suspect that there are many other countries where this situation is happening or abortion is just illegal.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/islamethics/abortion_1.shtml
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/world/europe/on-paper-italy-allows-abortions-but-few-doctors-will-perform-them.html?_r=0
Interesting thoughts on this. It brings the question of what is life? What is quality of life? And it is interesting that in Canada a OB/GYN is for the mother and has very little to do with the child and thus should be doing what is best for the mother.
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